Meeting/IRC/2011Jan20

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    santhosh!73f89ac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.115.248.154.196, 11:23:15
    2010/11/08
*** Users on #smc-project: j4v4m4n santhosh ershad apeter Vivek Polar| CIA-98
    @ChanServ
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<jinsbond007> hope I am not late  [20:59]
<jinsbond007> j4v4m4n: apeter santhosh around?  [21:00]
<santhosh> j4v4m4n: എന്താ പരിപാടി?
<apeter> hello all
<apeter> good to see atleast a few :)
<apeter> need to conduct FUEL for Malayalam and hence thought to have a
	 discussion about it  [21:01]
<santhosh> ഇത്രേം പേരു മത്യോ?
<apeter> atleast lets discuss things and then send the details to list  [21:02]
<santhosh> http://wiki.smc.org.in/Glossary
<apeter> j4v4m4n, ?
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<apeter> santhosh, we have already discussed and planned to have the
	 FUEL... :)
<j4v4m4n> santhosh: jinsbond007 apeter നമസ്കാരം  [21:03]
<apeter> നമസ്ക്കാരം
<jinsbond007> j4v4m4n: ah finally, നമസ്കാരം :)
<apeter> now things to discuss is when to have, who all to be invited for this
	 meeting? I mean any language experts ... 
<apeter> what say?  [21:04]
<j4v4m4n> apeter: ഏതെങ്കലും സ്ഥലവും സമയവും നിര്‍ദ്ദേശിയ്ക്കൂ
<apeter> j4v4m4n, jinsbond007 santhosh I was thinking whether we can have this
	 during NITC meet?  [21:05]
ERC> /nick ജാവാമാന്‍
<apeter> is it possible?
*** ജാവാമ is an
    erroneous nickname
<apeter> what do you guys think?
<santhosh> apeter: physical meaning required?
<apeter> santhosh, yes
<j4v4m4n> apeter: I will be in NITC from 31st Jan to 6th Feb
* apeter has requested Rajesh to join
<j4v4m4n> santhosh: yes, especially if we are onvolving language experts
								        [21:06]
* apeter has requested Rajesh to join this online meeting
<j4v4m4n> santhosh: we can keep irc open as an option for people who cannot
	  make it physically  [21:07]
<apeter> j4v4m4n, I agree with you :)
<jinsbond007> j4v4m4n: santhosh when is fossmeet?  [21:08]
<santhosh> apeter: j4v4m4n, can we baseline our glossary? or do we need to get
	   comments on the entries in offline way?
<jinsbond007> I don't remember in feb or march?
<j4v4m4n> apeter: but Feb first week would be too soon for arranging a meeting
	  of this sort
<apeter> jinsbond007, 4th-6th Feb
<jinsbond007> ok
<apeter> j4v4m4n, we shall give it a try..
<santhosh> such as, getting the comments in printed copies
<jinsbond007> anyway, I won't be available for any physical meetings due to my
	      busy schedule for I think some 4 months  [21:09]
<j4v4m4n> jinsbond007: we can do both as I mentioned
<apeter> j4v4m4n, if its too much of inconvenience we shall postpond to 2nd or
	 3rd week Feb
<j4v4m4n> jinsbond007: physical component has to be there
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<santhosh> j4v4m4n: btw, by language experts, ആരെയാ ഉദ്ദേശിക്കുന്നതു്? കമ്പ്യൂട്ടറില്‍
	   മലയാളം ആദ്യമായി കാണുന്നവര്‍ക്ക് പ്രായോഗികമായി നിര്‍ദ്ദേശങ്ങള്‍ തരാന്‍ കഴിയുമോ?  [21:11]
<rajeshr> Hi Everybody
<j4v4m4n> rajeshr: hi
<santhosh> the contexts are completely different
<apeter> hi rajeshr 
<rajeshr> Sorry for late!
<apeter> rajeshr, no worries :)
<jinsbond007> j4v4m4n: apeter first these people should know the translation
	      and why we do it the way we do
<santhosh> I am not sayin that they should know how to use computers in
	   malayalam
<j4v4m4n> santhosh: but most of them would have familiarity with computers
<santhosh> but minimal exposure and introduction is required right?  [21:12]
<apeter> rajeshr, maybe you can give an idea about FUEL. How do you normally
	 conduct the meet etc etc etc
<jinsbond007> j4v4m4n: the familiarity I don't think is not to be with
	      computer but the malayalam interface in computer and who are the
	      in tented audience
<rajeshr> okay apeter!  [21:13]
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<j4v4m4n> jinsbond007: santhosh we should have normal computer users too, the
	  idea is to get some kind of acceptance when people see experts are
	  there in the list, though I agree, it may not be necessary
<rajeshr> As we are from translation/localization filed we know some problem
	  during trans
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<rajeshr> one is of standadization and consistency
<j4v4m4n> the idea is computer users, who are not net savvy and would not be
	  able to come to an irc meeting for whatever reason should be
	  involved  [21:15]
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<santhosh> disconnected.. did somebody answer my qn? sorry
<jinsbond007> j4v4m4n: I am not against involving them, in fact most of the
	      time, we does consult people like hussain sir off the list
<jinsbond007> sebinaj: welcome
<j4v4m4n> sebinaj: hi
<sebinaj> hi
<apeter> hi sebinaj :)  [21:16]
<sebinaj> was struggling with the lost passphrase :D
<sebinaj> problems of registering a nick
<sebinaj> can i read the log?
<j4v4m4n> jinsbond007: not just hussain sir, anyone interested in seeing
	  Malayalam in computer should be given a chance to say their opinion
<j4v4m4n> sebinaj: you could have logged in without password :)  [21:17]
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<santhosh> j4v4m4n: thats what. we cannot get words contribution from people
	   who are very new to computers
<jinsbond007> j4v4m4n: anyway I guess we both got the point :)
* j4v4m4n copying minutes on the wiki
<santhosh> and even if they give it will be out of context
<santhosh> what I would suggest is this  [21:18]
<jinsbond007> my point was to use their expertise effectively, we should be
	      able to give them an idea of what the interface is
<santhosh> the FUEL program should have 2 parts
<jinsbond007> and who are the supposed audience for the Malayalam interface
<santhosh> one is a training(introduction) to all participants. say we conduct
	   in an arts college  [21:19]
<santhosh> in the second part, or as part of the traning, we show the
	   interface to them. ask them to use
<santhosh> get their user experience suggestion
<santhosh> I hope once they see applications in malayalam, naturally comments
	   will come
<apeter> rajeshr, any comments ?
<santhosh> rather than giving a word list  [21:20]
<santhosh> in that way, both of us can benefit
<santhosh> we get a localized application reviewed
<santhosh> and additions to our glossary/fule  [21:21]
<santhosh> they get training
<santhosh> comments?
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    #smc-project
<j4v4m4n> minutes http://wiki.smc.org.in/Meeting/IRC/2011Jan20  [21:22]
<rajeshr> apeter, I think translation of anything cannot be left for normal
	  audience, they can have several suggestions
<santhosh> rajeshr: correct
<rajeshr> so i Think first we should sit with passionate localisers,
	  translators, lingusits, journalist and create a good interface
<jinsbond007> rajeshr: if we are doing translations for them, they should
	      actually be involved na?
<j4v4m4n> anoop: hi  [21:23]
<rajeshr> I don't think we have any problem in involving them, but out of one
	  workshop like FUEL we can come with a list where most of the people
	  can be agrre  [21:24]
<rajeshr> like what we did for : http://svn.fedorahosted.org/svn/fuel/
<rajeshr> https://fedorahosted.org/fuel/
<anoop> hii
<apeter> hello anoop   [21:25]
<j4v4m4n> santhosh: we started our glossary from gnome glossary, but gnome
	  glossary was never maintained, so we were essentially forking the
	  glossary
<rajeshr> j4v4m4n, FUEL is not exactly a glossary...its strings coming out of
	  3-4 levels of menus from major apps  [21:26]
<santhosh> j4v4m4n: our aim is better interface, right? discussing around a
	   wordlist will be completely out of context. so introduce malayalam
	   desktop the lang experts, get their feedback
<j4v4m4n> santhosh: with actively maintained fuel list, shared among many
	  languages, we can have an uptodate glossary, my earlier lack of
	  interest to fuel was because I thought we could keep gnome glossary
	  updated, but that effort did not reach anywhere
<rajeshr> so it is one type of review as well
<santhosh> naturally that will become our corrected commonly used translations
<rajeshr> we have selected strings from pidgin, firefox, email clients,
	  OpenOffice, gdm, menus etc and combined in a list!  [21:27]
<j4v4m4n> santhosh: yes, I agree that is important, but which should be the
	  starting point? a commnly used words list or some localised app?
								        [21:28]
<santhosh> rajeshr: in previous fuel meetings, how was it done? preparing a
	   word list and discussing one by one? or was that meeting conducted
	   by introducing those applications and current translation to
	   participants?
<j4v4m4n> santhosh: we need both  [21:29]
<rajeshr> word list is already there:
<rajeshr> http://svn.fedorahosted.org/svn/fuel/fuel_pot/
<santhosh> j4v4m4n: I would suggest some commonly used localized application
<j4v4m4n> santhosh: ok so lets do that first in a meeting - just to get them
	  started and then work on the word list
<rajeshr> santhosh, we sat together for 2 days and discussded one by one 
								        [21:30]
<jinsbond007> j4v4m4n: I will agree with santhosh, they need to see where the
	      string goes   [21:31]
<rajeshr> eg. https://fedorahosted.org/fuel/wiki/fuel-maithili
<j4v4m4n> rajeshr: lets do an initial introductory meeting, and then fuel
	  list, what say?  [21:32]
<rajeshr> santhosh, j4v4m4n, jinsbond007: we have already conetxt for the
	  strings :
	  https://fedorahosted.org/fuel/attachment/wiki/attachments/Fuel_context.ods?format=raw
<rajeshr> j4v4m4n, its upon ml community how you can go
<apeter> I agree with j4v4m4n   [21:33]
<j4v4m4n> rajeshr: that has good context information and not a wordlist
								        [21:34]
ERC> /not just a wordlist/
*** not: Unknown command
<rajeshr> j4v4m4n,
	  http://svn.fedorahosted.org/svn/fuel/fuel_pot/fuel_en_US.pot
<rajeshr> ^^
<j4v4m4n>  /not just a wordlis/
<j4v4m4n> rajeshr: yes we can use spreadsheet for discussion adn po for entry
								        [21:35]
<rajeshr> this is word list and that ods file is context for that one
<jinsbond007> rajeshr: the work is great kudos :)
<rajeshr> thanks jinsbond007 !  [21:36]
<rajeshr> http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/guide/existing_glossaries
<santhosh> I think a spreadsheet is not enough. The problem is the proposed
	   participants will not get any idea what is is meant by this
	   File->New->... etc
<rajeshr> this project consider FUEL project as a terminology dev project
<santhosh> we cannot do such assumption about their knowledge about the
	   applications. Live experience with the applications or sitting with
	   somebody who demo it is required  [21:37]
<santhosh> sebinaj: ?
<jinsbond007> santhosh: that I agree
<jinsbond007> they need to see the application
<jinsbond007> sebinaj: ershad anoop any comments?
<rajeshr> santhosh, right we shd give demo  [21:38]
<rajeshr> we did in Hindi:
	  https://fedorahosted.org/fuel/wiki/fuel-hindi-photovoice
<j4v4m4n> santhosh: yes, so lets do an intital session introducing people to
	  localised environments and ask for live feedback and a second
	  session for fuel list
<jinsbond007> j4v4m4n: in a single day?  [21:39]
<ershad> jinsbond007: I lost track in between and i'm yet to understand what
	 FUEL really is and how it works :)
<j4v4m4n> jinsbond007: no many days apart
<jinsbond007> ok
<santhosh> "Outline -  Open office -Oocalc – Data – Outline. You can create an
	   outline of your data."
<j4v4m4n> jinsbond007: first in introduction, I can assume many would not be
	  using a malayalam interface
<santhosh> unless we demo it, this does not make any sense
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<j4v4m4n> jinsbond007: it would act as a kind of trigger and when we say they
	  can chnage translation they don't like it would be channelising
	  their frustration or unhappiness to positively engaging with
	  community to improve translation quality
<jinsbond007> santhosh: the problem is again an outline comes from some other
	      application
<anoop> now i am reading about FUEL
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<jinsbond007> j4v4m4n: the thing we should not forget is, its not a fancy
	      project but for increasing accessibility   [21:41]
<jinsbond007> j4v4m4n: they should understand who the target audience is :)
								        [21:42]
ERC>