ഒത്തുചേരലുകള്‍/ഐആര്‍സി/2009/മെയ്23

irc.freenode.net #smc-project

2009 May 23 9 PM IST/9.30 AM PST

Agenda

 * translation quality control

Since people from l10n track did not join the meeting, agenda was changed and discussion was on how to contribute. Most of the participants were students

IRC Log
(09:03:29 IST) santhosh: **** Meeting starts ******** (09:03:56 IST) santhosh: എല്ലാവര്‍ക്കും നമസ്കാരം! (09:04:10 IST) nishan_n: നമസ്ക്കാരം. (09:04:34 IST) santhosh: You can either talk in english or in Malayalam (09:04:55 IST) vipin: hi everybody. (09:05:07 IST) santhosh: Let us have a quick round of introduction :) Just say Hi and your name...	(09:05:19  IST) santhosh: Hi, me is santhosh thottingal	(09:05:31  IST) ershad: Hi, I'm ershad	(09:05:38  IST) turbosree: Hi All.. Sreejith from bangalore	(09:05:47  IST) vipin: Hi, I am Vipin KP from kollam.	(09:06:16  IST) kamathln: I am Laxminarayan from Mangalore . apt-get install malyalam fails on my brain	(09:06:51  IST) manusmad: Hi, I am Manu Madhav	(09:07:47  IST) yadunand: Hi , I am Yadu from Kottayam	(09:07:49  IST) nishan_n: Hi, I am Nishan	(09:08:18  IST) V4v_ER: Hi, this is ershad again. This is to keep updated in my dial up connection.	(09:08:52  IST) Sadik_Khalid: നമസ്കാരം, ഞാന്‍ സാദിക്ക്, കണ്ണൂര്‍ (ഇപ്പോ ദോഹയില്‍)	(09:09:18  IST) Sadik_Khalid: ഹായ് ഇവിടെ ആളനക്കം കണ്ട് നോക്കിയതാ. ആള്‍ കൂട്ടം തന്നെയുണ്ടല്ലോ, ഇപ്പോ വിളിച്ച മീറ്റിങാണോ?	(09:09:46  IST) kamathln left the room (quit: "leaving"). (09:10:08 IST) santhosh: Sadik_Khalid: Meeting was announced in mailing list one week back (09:10:14 IST) t3rm1n4l: Hi, This is Sarath Lakshman from Mahe (09:10:16 IST) kamathln [n=kamathln@122.167.149.73] entered the room. (09:10:46 IST) Sadik_Khalid: ഉം, അറിഞ്ഞില്ല. എന്താ അജ്ണ്ട (09:11:07 IST) santhosh: Sadik_Khalid: let introductions finish.. (09:11:57 IST) santhosh: ഈ ഒത്തു ചേരലിന്റെ ഉദ്ദേശ്യം, ഒന്നാമതായി എല്ലാവരും ഒരുമിച്ചു കൂടുക എന്നതാണു്. കുറേകാലമായി നമ്മള്‍ മീറ്റീങ്ങൊന്നുമില്ലാതെ നടക്കുകയാണു്. നമ്മുടെ പ്രവര്‍ത്തനങ്ങള്‍ പണ്ടത്തെ പോലെ ഉഷാറുമല്ല. (09:12:45 IST) santhosh: And one important item in agenda is to disucss the localization process and quality assurance (09:13:04 IST) nishan_n left the room (quit: "http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"). (09:13:31 IST) santhosh: Unfortunately people working on l10n track is not joined so far. (09:14:32 IST) santhosh: Even the person who set that in agenda :D (09:15:12 IST) santhosh: So let us discuss some of the activities we need to work on (09:15:24 IST) santhosh: I see many new members here... (09:16:37 IST) santhosh: As you know SMC has localization and development track. And a few people work on development track... (09:16:42 IST) yadunand is now known as yadu (09:17:28 IST) santhosh: But still we are having many commits in our git! see http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/smc.git/ (09:17:54 IST) santhosh: ഇതെന്താ എല്ലാരും മിണ്ടാതിരിക്കുന്നതു്? :)	(09:18:29 IST) vipin: what is this comit?.	(09:18:29  IST) santhosh: ഹലോ, ഹലോ, കേള്‍ക്കുന്നുണ്ടോ?....	(09:18:35  IST) ershad: Please continue etta :) (09:19:02 IST) santhosh: vipin: commit is a step in source code control (09:19:28 IST) vipin: means? (09:19:33 IST) santhosh: vipin: we keep track of all our source code changes and adds it to a repository (09:19:34 IST) yadu: santhosh, chetta we are listening to you :)	(09:19:55  IST) vipin: k.	(09:20:12  IST) Sadik_Khalid: ഇന്റ്രോ തീരട്ടെ മിണ്ടാതിരി എന്നു പറഞ്ഞിട്ട് ഇപ്പോ വാദി പ്രതിയായോ? :-) (09:20:13 IST) santhosh: vipin: so we have all versions in our repository and at any point of time we can refer older version (09:20:45 IST) turbosree left the room (quit: ). (09:20:52 IST) vipin: k.got it.. (09:21:10 IST) santhosh: vipin: when you make a change to repository, it is called a commit (09:21:28 IST) santhosh: vipin: after meeting just search about source code control and version tracking systems (09:21:29 IST) manusmad: എന്താ പറയേണ്ടതെന്നറിയില്ലാ... (09:21:47 IST) santhosh: vipin: clear? (09:21:57 IST) vipin: thanks.. (09:22:10 IST) vipin: and i wiil do that. (09:22:25 IST) santhosh: vipin: good (09:22:53 IST) kamathln: vipin: http://betterexplained.com/articles/a-visual-guide-to-version-control/ (09:23:09 IST) santhosh: so, we have a number of development projects to do in parallel with localization track (09:23:31 IST) santhosh: anybody want to know the difference between those two tracks (09:23:34 IST) vipin: like dhvani. (09:23:47 IST) santhosh: vipin: yes, projects other than translation (09:24:02 IST) xjeethux [n=xjeethux@115.184.45.58] entered the room. (09:24:52 IST) santhosh: ഇവിടെയുള്ള അധികം പേരും വിദ്യാര്‍ത്ഥികളാണെന്നു തോന്നുന്നു... (09:25:21 IST) santhosh: And many of them are looking for projects they can work and learn, right? (09:25:30 IST) ershad: yeah (09:25:37 IST) vipin: exactly.. (09:25:49 IST) smcguest_73 [i=3b5d062c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-fc8cdc59ce482609] entered the room. (09:26:18 IST) smcguest_73 is now known as sai (09:26:25 IST) santhosh: most of the time we get questions like "which language I need to learn for doing projects for SMC" (09:27:33 IST) santhosh: As you know, we are not a team searching for projects to do in a particular language (09:27:52 IST) santhosh: But we are a team searching for project ideas.. (09:28:07 IST) santhosh: language is part of implementation and is secondary (09:28:37 IST) santhosh: But most of the time, our projects are basically string processing applications (09:28:40 IST) manusmad: ok (09:29:49 IST) santhosh: any doubts? (09:29:59 IST) vipin: i guess you can use any languages for string procesing. (09:30:09 IST) santhosh: vipin: you are correct (09:30:26 IST) ershad: but mainly python, right ? (09:30:28 IST) kamathln: yeah.. each time you said "language" did it mean literary language or programming language? (09:30:30 IST) santhosh: vipin: even in assembly! (09:30:40 IST) manusmad: kamathln: programming (09:30:41 IST) vipin: k.	(09:30:44  IST) kamathln: k	(09:31:03  IST) santhosh: but there are languages very suitable for natural language processing (09:31:12 IST) santhosh: Python, Perl etc are good example (09:31:17 IST) santhosh: examples* (09:31:46 IST) santhosh: So if you see our source code repository, you can see most of the projects in python (09:31:49 IST) tvmanukrishnan [n=tvm@218.248.68.57] entered the room. (09:32:17 IST) santhosh: Projects like Dhvani is in C, because it is not only string processing, but speech processing too (09:32:43 IST) manusmad: santhosh: so are you talking about starting up a project which involves nlp? (09:33:05 IST) santhosh: manusmad: we have many projects already started. have a look at our git repository (09:33:36 IST) vipin: k	(09:33:39  IST) manusmad: santhosh: k	(09:33:45  IST) santhosh: So my point is, for students, instead of directly get into a project, watch our exisitng projects, (09:34:01 IST) santhosh: understand the requirements we are addressing through the projects... (09:34:12 IST) santhosh: and come up with ideas! :)	(09:34:22 IST) vipin: k..i understand.	(09:34:26  IST) santhosh: Or come forward to implement and Idea	(09:34:44  IST) kamathln: Am I right, If I say that coding can be always taken care, once you figure out the requirement and igure out the implementaion details??	(09:34:55  IST) sai: k	(09:35:11  IST) santhosh: And the best way to learn a programming language is to try out a problem in that language	(09:35:40  IST) santhosh: kamathln: most of the time yes. 	(09:36:38  IST) santhosh: kamathln: if we think in reverse we often get into the trouble of limitations of our programming language knowledge :) (09:37:07 IST) santhosh: kamathln: am I right? (09:37:08 IST) kamathln: yeah.. i guess we can only comment on all these on a case by case basis (09:37:32 IST) santhosh: ok, so guys, any questions? (09:38:06 IST) santhosh: Since many of you were looking for projects, I can have a quick round of intro of projects we are doing and planned.... (09:38:10 IST) vipin: what is the status of dhvani?. (09:39:04 IST) kamathln: santhosh: I guess we should concentrate on other things first. New people should never start something new.. they should only try to fix bugs, implement little new features in existing programs, write a bit of documentation, etc.. no matter how good they are (09:39:25 IST) santhosh: vipin: Dhvani's latest version 0.94 and have 11 language support and many bug fixes... It is a project with many many areas to work on	(09:39:29 IST) santhosh: kamathln: +1 (09:40:17 IST) vipin: dhvani smeez quite intreating.. (09:40:27 IST) santhosh: some of the tasks in dhvani can only be done by developers from those particular languages (09:40:30 IST) santhosh: vipin: :)	(09:40:45  IST) vipin: means?	(09:40:45  IST) santhosh: and I am still waiting to for somebody to join :) (09:41:14 IST) kamathln: santhosh: you may want to elaborate on the works of silpa (09:41:18 IST) santhosh: vipin: for example, since I dont know how to read Oriya, how can I fix oriya pronunciation errors (09:41:22 IST) kamathln: its the perfect thing to fo	(09:41:25  IST) kamathln: do* (09:41:38 IST) santhosh: kamathln: yes, we will discuss that.. (09:41:45 IST) santhosh: vipin: got it? (09:41:53 IST) vipin: yup. (09:41:56 IST) kamathln: santhosh: as you have already done a lot of hard work on building code, the new guys can do the integration into kde, gnome, etc.	(09:42:10  IST) kamathln: where they get to learn a lot, by doing minimum coding (09:42:59 IST) santhosh: so, first thing to get into dhvani project is , trying the program,  reading the code, identify the taks in todo list and work :)	(09:43:17  IST) vipin: k.	(09:43:29  IST) santhosh: I am not going to the details of that.. since we have many other items to discuss here.. Anybody can contact me after this meeting for details	(09:43:52  IST) sai: hi i am sai i am intrested in smc....but i dont know how to start in that and i dont know abt phyton also.	(09:44:11  IST) yadu: kamathln, where can i get more info on the integrate to kde / gnome part of the job ?	(09:44:13  IST) ershad left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).	(09:44:38  IST) santhosh: sai: ,  to know about smc, have a look at http://smc.org.in and read the details	(09:44:49  IST) kamathln: yadu: err.. on the websites of KDE and GNOME?	(09:44:50  IST) V4v_ER left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). (09:44:59 IST) ershad [n=ershad@218.248.68.57] entered the room. (09:45:00 IST) santhosh: for python, there are good books available on net... (09:45:12 IST) santhosh: yadu: Dhvani documentation has links for that (09:45:20 IST) sai: yah i had read that and got interested in the works (09:45:32 IST) santhosh: yadu: read the documentation in http://dhvani.sourceforge.net (09:45:41 IST) santhosh: sai:  good (09:45:42 IST) yadu: santhosh, will do that... 	(09:45:57  IST) santhosh: sai: Just join our mailing list too (09:46:24 IST) santhosh: sai: depending on your skills, you can identify an area for contribution soon :)	(09:46:37  IST) kamathln: kamathln:  download the code, check tthe code for things you can understand, no matter how litte, do changes, see what happens, keep doing changes, go on.. every learning is like being in kintergarden, initially, you will have to struggle, not matter how little you understand, becasue understanding grows exponentially till a saturation point.	(09:46:40  IST) sai: k	(09:46:55  IST) santhosh: kamathln: +1	(09:47:38  IST) santhosh: sai: and you can always post your questions to the mailing list 	(09:47:47  IST) sai: k	(09:47:53  IST) santhosh: we all are here for helping you!	(09:48:01  IST) sai: then what abt that kgeography project	(09:48:17  IST) santhosh: sai: yes, that is one priject in our task list	(09:48:50  IST) santhosh: sai: if you use and understand kgeography, try to understand how to add Kerala map to that (09:49:32 IST) santhosh: sai: even vipin was asking about that. You are from same college ? (09:50:04 IST) vipin: yes,he is frm our colleg.. (09:50:45 IST) sai: yah i am trying to get a new map of kerala (09:50:45 IST) sai:  and also a new linux to work on (09:51:09 IST) santhosh: sai: there are people who can help you on that... just post in mailing list (09:52:02 IST) sai: k	(09:52:19  IST) santhosh: well, before continuing, let me explain some pre-requisites for working with SMC :)	(09:52:38  IST) santhosh: 1. You should know Malayalam!	(09:52:43  IST) santhosh: :) (09:52:51 IST) sai: k	(09:53:04  IST) vipin: dne. (09:53:07 IST) vipin: done. (09:53:21 IST) kamathln: santhosh: haven't I proved that wrong before ? (09:53:23 IST) kamathln: ;-)	(09:53:42  IST) santhosh: kamathln: you should learn Malayalam :p	(09:53:58  IST) santhosh: vipin: means, you should know how to type in Malayalam, how to configure a Malayalam desktop	(09:54:26  IST) kamathln: santhosh: okie	(09:54:32  IST) santhosh: not only for you, but for helping people nearby your home to use their computers with Malayalam	(09:55:03  IST) ershad: That's a wonderful idea. which is the most SMC-supportive Distro ?	(09:55:18  IST) ragsagar: sai, http://ubuntu-in.info/wiki/index.php/IRC_Guidelines	(09:55:29  IST) sai: oh writin in malayalam in computer or in paper	(09:56:02  IST) santhosh: sai: you tell me, paper or computer?	(09:56:05  IST) santhosh: :D	(09:56:48  IST) kamathln: santhosh: paper. with itrans, even I can write malyalam .. :-P	(09:57:37  IST) santhosh: sai: typing malalayalam in computer applications	(09:57:56  IST) santhosh: 2. You should have latest Free(dom) operating system to work with (09:58:24 IST) vipin: k.	(09:59:01  IST) Sadik_Khalid: അതെന്തിനാന്ന് മനസ്സിലായില്ല (09:59:10 IST) santhosh: SMC believes in Free software principles are practices.. So at any point of time discussions about proprietory softwares will not come to our discussions. (09:59:23 IST) sai: computer yes i understood but still have some problem with the kootaksharam (09:59:55 IST) santhosh: sai: I will help you after this meeting to solve that.. (10:00:05 IST) sai: ok (10:02:14 IST) santhosh: Sadik_Khalid: Understanding the operating system and softwares is must for i18n and language computing. (10:02:39 IST) xjeethux_ [n=xjeethux@115.184.88.80] entered the room. (10:02:43 IST) santhosh: and unfortunately understanding binary is very difficult (10:03:00 IST) santhosh: so let us move to other projects... (10:03:23 IST) vipin: k. (10:04:18 IST) sh0ck_wave [n=shock@59.93.10.154] entered the room. (10:04:41 IST) sh0ck_wave left the room. (10:04:44 IST) santhosh: And, python being a programming language used for many Free software applications along with C/C++, for students, it is always recommended to start learning it (10:05:01 IST) vipin: ..we will do that. (10:05:18 IST) ershad: vipin: +1 (10:05:34 IST) vipin: what is this +1? (10:06:03 IST) ershad: i mean, i support you :)	(10:06:30  IST) vipin: oohh,,tnx.	(10:06:52  IST) sai left the room (quit: "http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client").	(10:07:01  IST) smcguest_73 [i=3b5d062c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-77abce0a1bc052ef] entered the room.	(10:07:15  IST) santhosh: and one active project that we are currently working on is Silpa	(10:07:17  IST) smcguest_73: \nick sai	(10:07:18  IST) santhosh: http://smc.org.in/silpa	(10:07:23  IST) smcguest_73 is now known as sai	(10:08:13  IST) santhosh: You can have a look at the project, its source code... As always one cannot immediately start contributing to that... 	(10:08:31  IST) santhosh: But as students, learning is also have same importance of contributions	(10:08:43  IST) Sadik_Khalid: രണ്ടാമത് പറഞ്ഞ കാര്യത്തോട് എനിക്ക് തീരെ യോജിക്കാന്‍ പറ്റുന്നില്ല. (മീറ്റിങ് അലങ്കോലപ്പെടാതിരിക്കുവാന്‍ മിണ്ടാതിരിക്കുന്നു)	(10:09:19  IST) santhosh: Silpa is written in python.. (10:09:32 IST) sai: k	(10:09:54  IST) ubik-2 [n=aashiks@proxy.iiit.ac.in] entered the room. (10:10:05 IST) vipin: ..it seemz there are quite a few projects under silpa.. (10:10:31 IST) santhosh: Sadik_Khalid: fresoftware vs Prop. Let is not going to that discussion now.. It is offtopic as of now. we can have a discussion on that after this meeting (10:11:02 IST) ragsagar left the room (quit: "Leaving"). (10:11:07 IST) santhosh: vipin: yes, it is a collection of all projects of SMC on malayalam or indic computing ported to web (10:11:52 IST) vipin: and most of them are realy intresting.. (10:11:55 IST) santhosh: ubik-2:  :)	(10:12:00  IST) vipin: the language gusser..	(10:12:17  IST) ubik-2: santhosh: was out dining :D	(10:12:21  IST) santhosh: vipin: you can see a link to source code at the bottom of every page	(10:12:28  IST) vipin: the anagram.	(10:12:37  IST) Sadik_Khalid: ആ ചര്‍ച്ചയ്ക്ക് എനിക്ക് താത്പര്യമില്ല. ഉള്ളതു പറയാമല്ലോ കുറെ നാളായി ഞാന്‍ സ്വമകയില്‍ അലഞ്ഞു തിരിയാന്‍ തുടങ്ങിയിട്ട്. ഇത് എന്താ സംഭവം എന്ന് ഇതു...	(10:12:39  IST) Sadik_Khalid: ...വരെ ശരിക്ക് മനസ്സിലാക്കാന്‍ പറ്റീട്ടില്ല	(10:14:53  IST) santhosh: it has been more than 1 hour... it is question time now :) (10:15:09 IST) Sadik_Khalid: സ്വതന്ത്ര മലയാളം കമ്പ്യൂട്ടിങ്ങ് പൂര്‍ണ്ണമായും സന്നദ്ധപ്രവര്‍ത്തകരുടെ സഹായത്തോടെ പ്രവര്‍ത്തിക്കുന്ന കൂട്ടായ്മയാണു്. ഡിജിറ്റല്‍ യുഗത്തില്‍... (10:15:11 IST) Sadik_Khalid: ...നമ്മുടെ മാതൃഭാഷയെ അതിന്റെ തനിമ നിലനിര്‍ത്തിക്കൊണ്ടു് പരിപാലിയ്ക്കണമെന്നാഗ്രഹമുള്ള ആര്‍ക്കും ഇതില്‍ പങ്കാളിയാകാം. - ഈ ഒരു വരി സഹായത്താളില്‍... (10:15:12 IST) vipin: ...k	(10:15:12  IST) Sadik_Khalid: ...ഉള്ളതുകൊണ്ടാണ് ഇവിടെ നില്‍ക്കുന്നത് (10:16:37 IST) vipin: santhosh:can you sugget one or 2 simplest project that we can start with..we have some students here quite intrested. in smc. (10:16:59 IST) vipin: jst to improve there confidence level.. (10:17:12 IST) vipin: by completing some projects.. (10:17:26 IST) vipin: some simple projects.. (10:17:58 IST) tvmanukrishnan1 [n=tvm@218.248.68.57] entered the room. (10:19:02 IST) santhosh: vipin: well, you can always try out writing small programs.... say,, count the number of letters in a malayalam word (10:19:22 IST) santhosh: but count, I mean, വിപിന്‍ should have 3 as output (10:19:24 IST) santhosh: :)	(10:19:41  IST) vipin: k.	(10:19:56  IST) santhosh: that will help you to understand many many things to take care of while doing programming with Malayalam	(10:20:05  IST) santhosh: vipin: programming language is your choice :) (10:20:23 IST) vipin: is there any small project open in smc..which can be done in one or 2 week.. (10:21:23 IST) santhosh: vipin: nope.. first we need to understand many basics, before doing a project that can be given to an end user (10:21:45 IST) kamathln: santhosh: I think you need to make a list of excercises (10:21:47 IST) santhosh: vipin: so, best way to learn is experimenting with small small problems and solutions (10:21:56 IST) santhosh: kamathln: good point (10:21:57 IST) vipin: k.	(10:22:37  IST) santhosh: kamathln: we will do it and document in wiki (10:22:47 IST) kamathln: okie .. (10:23:47 IST) Sadik_Khalid: എന്താണ് SMC? ഇതിനു വ്യക്തമായ മാര്‍ഗ്ഗരേഖയുണ്ടോ? (10:23:49 IST) xjeethux left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). (10:23:50 IST) santhosh: and vipin, sai, there are some process that we follow in free software developement .. That you can naturally learn while doing small small projects for your own learning (10:24:16 IST) vipin: like? (10:25:03 IST) santhosh: vipin: like what we discussed when starting this meeting, version control, source code licensing, releasing, documenting, etc etc (10:25:14 IST) vipin: k.	(10:25:21  IST) kamathln: reporting bugs (10:25:25 IST) sai: mean? (10:25:38 IST) sai: k	(10:26:39  IST) santhosh: ubik-2: t3rm1n4l, tvmanukrishnan, xjeethux_, ..... anything to discuss, ask...? (10:26:53 IST) ubik-2: santhosh: i am lurking (10:27:54 IST) kamathln: santhosh: xjeethux_ is lurking too I guess (10:28:23 IST) ***t3rm1n4l was away (10:28:29 IST) t3rm1n4l: hi (10:28:38 IST) santhosh: friends, we are planning to have this kind of meeting in every 2 weeks.. we can discuss our projects, contribution, technical things, etc etc... (10:28:49 IST) vipin: ..not complaing,jst informing that the project page in savanah is not updated.. (10:29:08 IST) t3rm1n4l: vipin:ubuntu launchpad seems a nice place to explore source code (10:29:33 IST) santhosh: vipin: vipin, send me your savannah id to me, I will add you to savannah project and then you can help us in correcting it	(10:29:43  IST) sai: k	(10:29:47  IST) santhosh: as we do for all IRC meeting, we will put the IRC log in wiki (10:30:18 IST) vipin: log means the chat history?. (10:30:24 IST) kamathln: santhosh: i guess you need to split meetings into 2 : one for newcomers, other for veteran contributors .. that is, till majority are veterans (10:30:30 IST) santhosh: vipin: yes (10:30:30 IST) kamathln: vipin: yes (10:30:40 IST) santhosh: kamathln: yes, we will consider that (10:30:48 IST) vipin: i agree with that.. (10:31:07 IST) santhosh: kamathln: actually this meeting was for existing contributors, but since all were new comers, we just changed the agenda (10:31:07 IST) vipin: or else it will be a waste of time for otherss.. (10:31:16 IST) kamathln: ah! (10:31:22 IST) vipin: answering the queries of newcommerss. (10:31:24 IST) santhosh: vipin: dont worry, we will do that (10:31:37 IST) santhosh: vipin: you can ask your classmates to join (10:32:06 IST) santhosh: Thanks for joining, we are closing the meeting now.... (10:32:15 IST) santhosh: ****** Meeting ends ***********