Meeting/IRC/2011Jan20

Planet SMC: http://planet.smc.org.in || Work in Progress: http://silpa.smc.org.in || ചാമ്പ പ്രൊജക്ട് http://www.chambaproject.in   santhosh!73f89ac4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.115.248.154.196, 11:23:15 2010/11/08   @ChanServ hope I am not late [20:59] j4v4m4n: apeter santhosh around? [21:00] j4v4m4n: എന്താ പരിപാടി? hello all good to see atleast a few :) need to conduct FUEL for Malayalam and hence thought to have a	 discussion about it [21:01] ഇത്രേം പേരു മത്യോ? atleast lets discuss things and then send the details to list  [21:02] http://wiki.smc.org.in/Glossary j4v4m4n, ?    channel #smc-project santhosh, we have already discussed and planned to have the	 FUEL... :) santhosh: jinsbond007 apeter നമസ്കാരം [21:03] നമസ്ക്കാരം j4v4m4n: ah finally, നമസ്കാരം :) now things to discuss is when to have, who all to be invited for this	 meeting? I mean any language experts ... what say?  [21:04] apeter: ഏതെങ്കലും സ്ഥലവും സമയവും നിര്‍ദ്ദേശിയ്ക്കൂ j4v4m4n, jinsbond007 santhosh I was thinking whether we can have this	 during NITC meet?  [21:05] ERC> /nick ജാവാമാന്‍ is it possible?    erroneous nickname what do you guys think? apeter: physical meaning required? santhosh, yes apeter: I will be in NITC from 31st Jan to 6th Feb santhosh: yes, especially if we are onvolving language experts								        [21:06] santhosh: we can keep irc open as an option for people who cannot	  make it physically  [21:07] j4v4m4n, I agree with you :) j4v4m4n: santhosh when is fossmeet? [21:08] apeter: j4v4m4n, can we baseline our glossary? or do we need to get comments on the entries in offline way? I don't remember in feb or march? apeter: but Feb first week would be too soon for arranging a meeting of this sort jinsbond007, 4th-6th Feb ok j4v4m4n, we shall give it a try.. such as, getting the comments in printed copies anyway, I won't be available for any physical meetings due to my	     busy schedule for I think some 4 months  [21:09] jinsbond007: we can do both as I mentioned j4v4m4n, if its too much of inconvenience we shall postpond to 2nd or	 3rd week Feb jinsbond007: physical component has to be there j4v4m4n: btw, by language experts, ആരെയാ ഉദ്ദേശിക്കുന്നതു്? കമ്പ്യൂട്ടറില്‍ മലയാളം ആദ്യമായി കാണുന്നവര്‍ക്ക് പ്രായോഗികമായി നിര്‍ദ്ദേശങ്ങള്‍ തരാന്‍ കഴിയുമോ? [21:11] Hi Everybody rajeshr: hi the contexts are completely different hi rajeshr Sorry for late! rajeshr, no worries :) j4v4m4n: apeter first these people should know the translation	     and why we do it the way we do I am not sayin that they should know how to use computers in	   malayalam santhosh: but most of them would have familiarity with computers but minimal exposure and introduction is required right?  [21:12] rajeshr, maybe you can give an idea about FUEL. How do you normally	 conduct the meet etc etc etc j4v4m4n: the familiarity I don't think is not to be with	      computer but the malayalam interface in computer and who are the	      in tented audience okay apeter!  [21:13]    "Leaving."  [21:14] jinsbond007: santhosh we should have normal computer users too, the	  idea is to get some kind of acceptance when people see experts are	  there in the list, though I agree, it may not be necessary As we are from translation/localization filed we know some problem	  during trans one is of standadization and consistency the idea is computer users, who are not net savvy and would not be	 able to come to an irc meeting for whatever reason should be	  involved  [21:15] disconnected.. did somebody answer my qn? sorry j4v4m4n: I am not against involving them, in fact most of the time, we does consult people like hussain sir off the list sebinaj: welcome sebinaj: hi hi hi sebinaj :) [21:16] was struggling with the lost passphrase :D problems of registering a nick can i read the log? jinsbond007: not just hussain sir, anyone interested in seeing	  Malayalam in computer should be given a chance to say their opinion sebinaj: you could have logged in without password :)  [21:17] j4v4m4n: thats what. we cannot get words contribution from people who are very new to computers j4v4m4n: anyway I guess we both got the point :) and even if they give it will be out of context what I would suggest is this [21:18] my point was to use their expertise effectively, we should be	      able to give them an idea of what the interface is the FUEL program should have 2 parts and who are the supposed audience for the Malayalam interface one is a training(introduction) to all participants. say we conduct	   in an arts college  [21:19] in the second part, or as part of the traning, we show the	   interface to them. ask them to use get their user experience suggestion I hope once they see applications in malayalam, naturally comments	   will come rajeshr, any comments ? rather than giving a word list  [21:20] in that way, both of us can benefit we get a localized application reviewed and additions to our glossary/fule  [21:21] they get training comments?    #smc-project minutes http://wiki.smc.org.in/Meeting/IRC/2011Jan20  [21:22] apeter, I think translation of anything cannot be left for normal audience, they can have several suggestions rajeshr: correct so i Think first we should sit with passionate localisers, translators, lingusits, journalist and create a good interface rajeshr: if we are doing translations for them, they should actually be involved na? anoop: hi [21:23] I don't think we have any problem in involving them, but out of one workshop like FUEL we can come with a list where most of the people can be agrre [21:24] like what we did for : http://svn.fedorahosted.org/svn/fuel/ https://fedorahosted.org/fuel/ hii hello anoop  [21:25] santhosh: we started our glossary from gnome glossary, but gnome glossary was never maintained, so we were essentially forking the glossary j4v4m4n, FUEL is not exactly a glossary...its strings coming out of	 3-4 levels of menus from major apps  [21:26] j4v4m4n: our aim is better interface, right? discussing around a	  wordlist will be completely out of context. so introduce malayalam desktop the lang experts, get their feedback santhosh: with actively maintained fuel list, shared among many languages, we can have an uptodate glossary, my earlier lack of	 interest to fuel was because I thought we could keep gnome glossary updated, but that effort did not reach anywhere so it is one type of review as well naturally that will become our corrected commonly used translations we have selected strings from pidgin, firefox, email clients, OpenOffice, gdm, menus etc and combined in a list! [21:27] santhosh: yes, I agree that is important, but which should be the starting point? a commnly used words list or some localised app? [21:28] rajeshr: in previous fuel meetings, how was it done? preparing a	  word list and discussing one by one? or was that meeting conducted by introducing those applications and current translation to participants? santhosh: we need both [21:29] word list is already there: http://svn.fedorahosted.org/svn/fuel/fuel_pot/ j4v4m4n: I would suggest some commonly used localized application santhosh: ok so lets do that first in a meeting - just to get them started and then work on the word list santhosh, we sat together for 2 days and discussded one by one [21:30] j4v4m4n: I will agree with santhosh, they need to see where the string goes  [21:31] eg. https://fedorahosted.org/fuel/wiki/fuel-maithili rajeshr: lets do an initial introductory meeting, and then fuel list, what say? [21:32] santhosh, j4v4m4n, jinsbond007: we have already conetxt for the strings : https://fedorahosted.org/fuel/attachment/wiki/attachments/Fuel_context.ods?format=raw j4v4m4n, its upon ml community how you can go I agree with j4v4m4n  [21:33] rajeshr: that has good context information and not a wordlist [21:34] ERC> /not just a wordlist/ j4v4m4n, http://svn.fedorahosted.org/svn/fuel/fuel_pot/fuel_en_US.pot ^^ /not just a wordlis/ rajeshr: yes we can use spreadsheet for discussion adn po for entry [21:35] this is word list and that ods file is context for that one rajeshr: the work is great kudos :) thanks jinsbond007 ! [21:36] http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/guide/existing_glossaries I think a spreadsheet is not enough. The problem is the proposed	   participants will not get any idea what is is meant by this	   File->New->... etc this project consider FUEL project as a terminology dev project we cannot do such assumption about their knowledge about the	   applications. Live experience with the applications or sitting with	   somebody who demo it is required  [21:37] sebinaj: ? santhosh: that I agree they need to see the application sebinaj: ershad anoop any comments? santhosh, right we shd give demo  [21:38] we did in Hindi:	  https://fedorahosted.org/fuel/wiki/fuel-hindi-photovoice santhosh: yes, so lets do an intital session introducing people to	  localised environments and ask for live feedback and a second	  session for fuel list j4v4m4n: in a single day? [21:39] jinsbond007: I lost track in between and i'm yet to understand what FUEL really is and how it works :) jinsbond007: no many days apart ok "Outline - Open office -Oocalc – Data – Outline. You can create an	   outline of your data." jinsbond007: first in introduction, I can assume many would not be	  using a malayalam interface unless we demo it, this does not make any sense    "Leaving."  [21:40] jinsbond007: it would act as a kind of trigger and when we say they	  can chnage translation they don't like it would be channelising	  their frustration or unhappiness to positively engaging with	  community to improve translation quality santhosh: the problem is again an outline comes from some other	      application now i am reading about FUEL j4v4m4n: the thing we should not forget is, its not a fancy	      project but for increasing accessibility   [21:41] j4v4m4n: they should understand who the target audience is :) [21:42]   #smc-project j4v4m4n: after the first workshop, then another workshop to teach them how to effectively channelize their frustration? [21:43]   Ping timeout: 265 seconds i didn't knew, what fuel is. was reading about it. [21:44] sebinaj: hope got an idea, the thing is, you don't really need to know what fuel is, its more about how we should go about with translations [21:45] sebinaj: fuel is a way to standardize the translations hmm... thanks jinsbond007 [21:46] can somebody update the logs, i missed some parts fuel is way to standardize the localized strings in different apps. right? [21:47] jinsbond007: first workshop would cover how to channelise part - ie, get involved with the community sebinaj, pl visit this article as well: http://www.linux.com/archive/feature/149038 j4v4m4n: +1 j4v4m4n: so that should introduce the localized desktop to them j4v4m4n: second is actually translation workshop santhosh: sanal_madatheth minutes here http://wiki.smc.org.in/Meeting/IRC/2011Jan20 [21:48] jinsbond007: first meet would cover introduction and translation workshops, second one is then sitting for fuel wordlist [21:49] jinsbond007: santhosh by second meeting they should have an idea first meeting should demo all applications used in fule list and encourage people to use Malayalam interface in their home systems, and for actual fule wordlist discussion we should only invite people who actually use a Malayalam interface or who have not used computer yet [21:50] j4v4m4n: but practically, this will work only if we can conduct two such meetings in same place with same audience [21:51] so how to go about that [21:52] santhosh: yes, only that will be useful santhosh: I was just going to say that :) lets have the first meeting at nitc will that work? it will work if we use the same host to some extent I guess apeter: it should work, but we need to publicise and get maximum	 people to participate  [21:53] but still getting same audience will be difficult, but not	      impossible if we can conduct such program in association with an "arts	   college", i think it would work j4v4m4n, we can.. we have another two weeks in hand malayalam dept. of an arts college j4v4m4n: especially people who use malayalam interface and not	      used computer  [21:54] santhosh, any college suggestion? santhosh: then we need to think about infrastructure too we can invite them to nitc for the initial meeting what do we need to conduct work shop and all jinsbond007: for second part, the only requirement is people who are	  already using Malayalam interface, that means even if some people missed first meeting or some people started using Malayalam interface after first meeting, they can still come for second meeting, only condition for second meeting is, we won't entertain any new Malayalam interface users at all j4v4m4n: ok [21:55] jinsbond007: I mean those who would see a Malayalam interface for the first time at the second meeting is a no no [21:56] we should see some colleges around calicut jinsbond007: but if they have never used a computer, that should be	 fine santhosh: the college in calicut, where we conducted a camp? what was it devagiri college? j4v4m4n, you will be there from 30th right? will you be able to invite malayalam dept from any arts college in calicut? santhosh: fossmeet advantage is that, they are already getting a	 good crowd assembled, why not use it? Hari Vishnu also can join us	 in NITC  [21:57] apeter: I will be busy with Chamba project, I can only spare time for actual meeting apeter: Sooraj Kenoth and Mahesh Mangalat should be able to help with that [21:58] j4v4m4n, okay will get that done then [21:59] so we agreed on it? apeter: can you summarize? apeter: talk to fossmeet folks if they can give us one session we can move to next item then :) apeter: you know VA Amarnath, right? [22:00] j4v4m4n, okay. will do that tomorrow j4v4m4n, no I dont :( apeter: no problem just mail them, keep me in cc j4v4m4n, sure will do that [22:01] apeter: send it to fossmeet list alrught apeter: ok summarise the plan j4v4m4n, send mail to smc, fossmeet on the plan to conduct an	 introductory meeting for FUEL during nitc [22:02] during fossmeet in nitc :) :( [22:03] on last day - 6th? FUEL for Malayalam yes and its not really FUEL for Malayalam we might discuss, it will be about translation and interfaces and methodology we	     follow  [22:04] also invite a malayalam department from a good arts college in	 Calicut Malayalm translation quality is better than FUEL for Malayalam find out if they can host us for the second session translation quality, review, community process, getting involved jinsbond007, you mean with the college? [22:05] apeter: yeah jinsbond007: lets think about second session later jinsbond007, okay j4v4m4n: ok jinsbond007: may be even in another place apeter: j4v4m4n you see how important is to summarize :) jinsbond007, true :) jinsbond007: hmm nobody has any other comment? #smc-project [22:06]   Connection reset by peer we need to create a press release oh yes may be posters too giving lot of suggestions okay [22:07] sebinaj: can you help with a press release? ershad: anoop poster? [22:08] sebinaj: ershad anoop ping? [22:09] j4v4m4n: Sure, I will try. ershad: thanks, get help from people on smc list hope we have covered everything [22:11] I have a little other translation related issue to discuss [22:12] apeter: I guess so its of gnu.org translations please go ahead jinsbond007: shoot I did a review of 17 or so articles available, and put it up on	     gitorious, back in november jinsbond007: I think we can include that also in the session, if	 time permits ie, optionally before that, j4v4m4n we are yet to get our access to www-ml.. no	  reply from savannah guys  [22:13] rajeshr, so here we go... Thanks a lot for your time :) j4v4m4n: Ok etta. (guys sorry to interrupt) santhosh: that we will tackle separately thanks apeter :-)  [22:14] thanks a lot to all! santhosh: we should go on #savannah and discuss I think its important that we push the updated translations upstream rajeshr: thanks! rajeshr: thanks :) jinsbond007: yes http://gitorious.org/www-ml-clone First time I came here, great community has the current translation I learnt lot! santhosh, j4v4m4n thanks to you as well! [22:15] jinsbond007, thanks! rajeshr: great to have you here, thanks! sebinaj: there? jinsbond007: let him reply in email or let someone else volunteer								        [22:16] rajeshr, see you tomorrow :) lets call it a meeting folks, I have to go and cook! okay ani! bye all! j4v4m4n: santhosh the thing is, even in last meeting we decided to do the review and typesetting :) j4v4m4n, thank you. see you tomorrow jinsbond007: for www-ml lets go to #savannh and discuss now its 3 nd half months, so shouldn't we start talking about	     the typesetting and book? jinsbond007: ok lets talk then  [22:18] jinsbond007: how many we have? what articles? sebinaj had offered some help in review/edit last time jinsbond007: yes santhosh: 17 jinsbond007: we had some important articles not translated (IIRC) santhosh: yes, that's what I was writing  [22:20] how should we go about selecting articles? should we do more translation? jinsbond007: lets ask for volunteeres for individual articles one at	  a time jinsbond007: send the current list to the list and ask for	  suggestions j4v4m4n: ok  [22:21] I think I did it two months ago :) will resent the mail once again jinsbond007: :( [22:22] jinsbond007: I think if we have articles list ready we can type	   set. we have പ്രസാധനക്കുറിപ്പ്, അവതാരിക...all are ready jinsbond007: will discuss it in calicut meeting as well TT Srikumar had written that and it even came in Madhyamam weekly that time  [22:23] santhosh: I remember, and just read it again today on the book	      shyam typeset jinsbond007: lets start the tetex/lyx file in our git, if no one	  willing to work with another format j4v4m4n: tex is enough.  [22:24] and jinsbond007 got it working perfectly in his laptop santhosh: then you do it :) I'm comfortable with lyx - it is latex frontend santhosh: I am facing some issues with the hyphenation, some things are going out of bound checking it out [22:25] but other wise, I am getting all rendering right if tex is not working, pypdflib is there :p lyx I haven't tried, heard its easier to use than tex lemme see, shyam got perfect typesetting, so its not impossible :) jinsbond007: that did not had hyphenation [22:26] j4v4m4n: at office or at home?  [22:27] lyx is whyswig santhosh: office wysiwyg jinsbond007: ok choose your format and start typesetting in git I have to go now  [22:28] Ich bin hungry! :) j4v4m4n: the thing is, my blood count is up :) so will get admitted soon and will be back only after 10 days no hurry jinsbond007 jinsbond007, take care :) most probably on Monday next cycle will start [22:29] so if some can review current translation in the mean time, it	     will be great apeter: who will put full meeting log? I dont have [22:30] jinsbond007: take your time santhosh, j4v4m4n has taken care of it :) bye everyone [22:32] good night good night prabi pravi :) "Leaving." [22:33] ERC> /quit 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs) ERC>
 * You have joined channel #smc-project [20:58]
 * Topic for #smc-project: എന്റെ കമ്പ്യൂട്ടറിനു് എന്റെ ഭാഷ http://smc.org.in ||
 * #smc-project: topic set by
 * Users on #smc-project: j4v4m4n santhosh ershad apeter Vivek Polar| CIA-98
 * #smc-project modes: +nst
 * #smc-project was created on ശനി 2007/10/13 08:54:20 IST
 * ershad (~ershad@14.194.66.128) has quit: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
 * jinsbond007 (~jinsbond0@14.99.10.217) has joined channel #smc-project
 * qwebirc45842 (75c98191@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.201.129.145) has joined
 * ജാവാമ is an
 * apeter has requested Rajesh to join
 * apeter has requested Rajesh to join this online meeting
 * rajeshr (~rranjan@117.195.109.90) has joined channel #smc-project [21:10]
 * santhosh (~santhosh@117.202.143.56) has left channel #smc-project:
 * santhosh (~santhosh@117.202.143.56) has joined channel #smc-project
 * santhosh (~santhosh@117.202.143.56) has quit: Quit: Leaving.
 * santhosh (~santhosh@117.202.143.56) has joined channel #smc-project
 * sebinaj (~sebinaj@117.199.11.154) has joined channel #smc-project
 * ershad (~ershad@14.194.66.128) has joined channel #smc-project
 * j4v4m4n copying minutes on the wiki
 * anoop (0e60120b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.14.96.18.11) has joined channel
 * not: Unknown command
 * santhosh (~santhosh@117.202.143.56) has left channel #smc-project:
 * santhosh (~santhosh@117.202.143.56) has joined channel #smc-project
 * sanal_madatheth (~sanalkuma@117.196.157.243) has joined channel
 * qwebirc45842 (75c98191@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.201.129.145) has quit:
 * sanalmadatheth (~sanalkuma@117.196.157.243) has joined channel
 * sanal_madatheth (~sanalkuma@117.196.157.243) has quit: Quit: Leaving
 * sanalmadatheth (~sanalkuma@117.196.157.243) has quit: Read error:
 * jinsbond007 interestingly me who haven't done a single translation so far is
 * j4v4m4n anyone who uses translated interface can give good suggestions
 * santhosh (~santhosh@117.202.143.56) has quit: Quit: Leaving. [22:10]
 * santhosh (~santhosh@117.202.143.56) has joined channel #smc-project
 * rajeshr (~rranjan@117.195.109.90) has quit: Quit: अहम् गच्छामि [22:17]
 * ershad (~ershad@14.194.66.128) has quit: Quit: Good night :) [22:19]
 * santhosh (~santhosh@117.202.143.56) has left channel #smc-project:
 * j4v4m4n (~user@gnu-india/supporter/j4v4m4n) has quit: Quit: ERC Version